If a person does not know, is that person still guilty of grievous crime?
Consider the plight of Oedipus and a modern day example.
What would you do if you were on the jury at the Oedipus trial? What would you do if you were on the jury in a modern day trial?
What would cause you to vote one way or another? Values? Beliefs? Evidence? Society Norms? Other information?
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I think he shouldn't have been punished by the god because he really though he had gotten away from the bad thing that follwed him. In the end though it was him hurting himself because he was so discusted by what he did. From what he did he was really trying to get away from killing his father and marrying his mother. Also though he did kill the men at the pathway regardless of who those men were he shouldn't have killed them and i think he should have been punished for that. I wouldn't think he should be charged for marrying his mother and killing his father, but for the men he killed at the cross roads (which just happened to be his father)
ReplyDeleteI think that he deserved the punishment, possibly even more than what he got. There is no way that just because he didn't know justified the fact that he killed those men at the crossroads. Even if they seemed to be only mere men, they are still people and that was unjust no matter how you slice it. I consider him guilty now or then. Just because someone is either unstable or ignorant does not mean that what they did is okay, not to mention that what is to stop them from repeating their error if there is no punishment? The repercussions Oedipus faced were completely just, possibly not just enough, and this is from a completely logical standpoint. In Oedipus' case, there is no arguing. He may not have known who he was killing, but he knew he was killing, and murder is murder, end of story.
ReplyDeleteI think no matter what the scenario may be if a person murders another they are guilty of that crime. To follow that up, I do not believe we should have the right to kill a murderer. It not only is a bad example, in my opinion, but it also shows that we can do the same thing they do. Yes, that person is a murderer and is guilty of it, but if we kill that person we are guilty too. Whether they are aware they have killed or not does not matter. To be guilty is to have committed a crime. Meaning that whether you know it or not you have committed it. So, when Oedipus killed Laius in that rash act of anger he was guilty. "Die, die- whoever he was that day in the wilds who cut my ankles free of the ruthless pins, he pulled me clear of death, he saved my life for this, this kindness- Curse him, kill him! If I'd died then, I'd never have dragged myself, my loved ones through such hell" (242). Oedipus came to realize what he did. He was saying that if only the shepherd had not saved him none of this would have happened. He would not have killed his father and married his mother. Even though in this it shows that he regretted killing him because of the prophecy it also seems to show that the king had the right to kill, like it only mattered that Laius was murdered when they realized who was murdered and who did it. This, however did bring his being a murderer to the surface. I believe that the way that was shown in the book was wrong, (king having the right to kill or any one having that right for that matter)but it is in history. That one act of murder made him guilty. For example, how many lies does it take to make a person a liar? Only one. So how many times does one have to kill to make them a murderer? Only one. With that idea on your mind you can see that no matter the ignorance of the situation Oedipus was in my view guilty.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand if I were on the jury at Oedipus' trial I am not sure which way I would vote because it says in the Ten Commandments: Thou shall not murder. In my belief I think that killing a murderer makes you a murderer too. With that said, I do not think I could vote Oedipus to be guilty because of my beliefs. I could not because with the way a trial would go for a murderer he would most likely be killed. That would put murder on my shoulders. If there was insurance that Oedipus would not be killed then I would vote guilty, but since there most likely is not I would vote innocent. My vote for this would be the same if it were in modern times.
My beliefs would be a huge part of my vote in this trial and any other. My religious beliefs would have the biggest part in my decision. Evidence would be next on my list. Also, in Oedipus' case he knew he killed, but was only ignorant to who, and therefore, the extremity of the situation. (Due to time it occurred). My views are what they are because of my beliefs and the way this happened with Oedipus. He should be charged for killing not the other things like marrying his mother and killing his father. Keep in mind that if the trial was different like against a person who was ignorant to what happened due to mental deficiencies my view would change completely, but due to the way it is in the story makes my beliefs and thoughts on it the way they are.
I think that in the case that he never knew that he had murdered a king or his father... he shouldn't have been punished,but murder is a crime and the fact that he did kill someone says that yes he should be charged and that i find justifiable.
ReplyDeleteHe also put himself in guilt and felt that he should be punished for the way he acted on his feelings due to the effect on his family.
If i were on jury @ his trial then; i'm sure i would be letting him know he's guilty of the crime because that was the way society was run, but today i would be very undecided... many different ways to look @ it and not one right answer... on jury it's a matter of how u feel it is justified.
I think he should have gotten more punishment. He killed the men. Thats all there is to it. I wouldnt worry about how upset and angry he was. People need to control their actions no matter what kind of mood they are in. People can be upset but they know what they are doing. Oedipus knew exactly what he was doing. He knew he was killing. He knew he was committing murder. Theres no other way to put it. Oedipus was guilty then and he for sure would be now.
ReplyDeletemrs. Hosch.. i was also wondering how many quotes we needed and where we needed them in our test.... i was trying toget a start.. please let em know
ReplyDeleteerica lee
I think in this situation with Opedius should of got punished worse than he did because you cannnot just go and kill people whoever they are it just doesn't work like that that person should be punished worse than O was in the book. I agree with Lindsey you need to control your actions no matter how angry you are with anyone or anything.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Oedipus is guilty because even though he didn't know it was his father, he killed a man and he thought he could get away with it, it just ended up following him further down the road in life. However I agree with the punishment of banashing him because I don't think killing the murderer is the best way to solve any situation like that. It's just continuing the cycle. Obviously if it happened today and I was in the jury I would vote jail for life, not death. Again I just think its hypocritcal because a large number of murderers do it for beliefs or revenge. And if we kill them for what they did, then thats doing the exact same thing. Getting revenge because they killed someone, and because we believe it is wrong. Yes, Oedipus was not aware of what was going on but when he realized the truth he felt more remorse than we can imagine possible "Die, die- whoever he was that day in the wilds who cut my ankles free of the ruthless pins, he pulled me clear of death, he saved my life for this, this kindness- Curse him, kill him! If I'd died then, I'd never have dragged myself, my loved ones through such hell" (242). This shows that he would rather die than live with what he has done, which is some murderers case is the norm. So if we think they should be punished why would we give them what they want? Why would we grant them the privilage of not having to live with the mistake that they made. It just doesn't make sense to me to kill the murderer. True it is somewhat "giving them a taste of their own medicine" but I personally don't believe in it. So I think Oedipus is guilty even though he was oblivious but I don't think he should have been sentenced to death.
ReplyDeleteTHIS IS THE ONE I WANT GRADED; THANK YOU :)
Oedipus, to me, is 100% guilty. He killed a man and didn't think anything of it, it was almost as if he thought he could get away with it! This bad action definitely caught up wth O and ended up ruining his life. When I first found out that O killed his own father I thought he should've been punished harshly. Looking back at what all happened throughout the rest of the book, my beliefs started to change. O's actions had an enormous impact on his wife/mom, Jocasta, and by the end of the book she comitted suicide! So, really I think that's all the punishment O needed! He discovered that he killed his own father and then to make it worse, his wife/mother hung herself! If this was a case in a modern day trial and I was on the jury, I would let O decide his fate. Whether he live or die would be up to him. Now if this were a case in Thebes, I would vote guilty, but I would not kill him. It is clear towards the end of the story that O is already dead inside. He would just have to live and deal with the consequences of his actions. I would think having to deal with the fact that you were married to your mother and killed your father would be absolute torture! "Oedipus: Then I have only this to ask, of your goodness: The funeral rites of her (Jocasta) that lies within, Provide as you think fit. She is your sister,and you will do rightly by her. As for me, no longer let my living presence curse this Fatherland of mine, but let me go and live upon the mountains- and die there..." (Page 65) Im not totally sure what he is saying but it seems as though he WANTS to die. If I was in his shoes, I might want that also.
ReplyDeletethis is the one i would like graded :D
ReplyDeleteI defintily think that Oedipus is guilty. He killed a man it doesnt matter if he was aware of the situation or not or if he knew that it was his father or not. You cant kill people and not expect to either be killed or spend the rest of your life in jail. I believe that he should have had better controlled himself and not gotten so angry and also learn how to deal with his anger and frustration. If i were on a trial today i would have senteced him to life in prison because i dont think you should be killed for killing someone else. Like Miranda said its "continuing the cycle" of killing people.
ReplyDeleteIf someone commits a crime they commited the crime so that means they do the time. It doesn't matter if you realize what you did or not; you did what you did, now you have to pay for it. Just because you aren't mentally right, doesn't mean that you are off the hook and "get out of jail free". If you were really that bad to begin with, then maybe someone needs to keep a better eye on you and not let you go off all alone. Or if you are like O and didn't realize you had killed your own father, that is still treated the same. You killed someone and so therefore you should pay the price. It's all the same, murder is murder.
ReplyDeleteIf I was on the jury at his trial and I knew for a fact that he killed the king, I would definately charge him guilty. I really think he should have gotten a bigger punishment for the crime that he had committed. Just because he became the king doesn't mean that he has different concequences then everyone else.
GRADE THIS ONE PLEASE! :]
O is in a very bad place becuase he killed his father ,but didnt no it was him he felt terrible about it. I dont think felling bad about something is enough for killing someone though he stabs out hios eyes because he feels so bad about it he feels like he shouldnt be able to se the beautiful world anymore because he should be trapped in the darkness because he commited such a terrible time. He also knows that his daughters will probably never live a regular life because of what he has done people will judge them and make fun of them but they didnt to anything at all. Also his wife kills herself because of all the guilt. I think because he is a king he didnt get that hard of a punishment thats just like todays world famous people get less for doing crime.
ReplyDeletePersonally I think if someone murders someone they should be punished. If I was on the jury at Oedipus trial I would find him guilty even though he was a King. He committed two bad crimes by killing his father and sleeping with his mother. He thinks that he shouldn't be able to see anymore so he cuts his own eyes out. But that might not be punishment enough. Death would be equal punishment just like in today's society.
ReplyDeleteOedipus is guilty. I don't think there is much of an argument there. If you kill someone, you kill someone. It's the same if you know them or don't. Just the fact if you know the person, it might hurt you more. Oedipus' punishment was the right thing to do, I believe. Why kill somebody who killed someone else? It just keeps the cycle going. Oedipus' punishment is his second chance. He isn't a bad man for killing his father. At that time he had no idea what who he was killing! I think he deserves a little more punishment then just losing his eyes. He did that on his own. But the long-term punishment might be the guilt and feelings he has to live with the rest of his life. Miranda's quote very well shows that Oedipus knows he will be living with his guilt. He would much rather die than have to live with it. But I think that Oedipus is a strong enough man that he will try to make a difference out of what he did. That could be to maybe strike back and try to work to make the town of Thebes better, or it could go the other way. Which would be bad. If I were in on O's trial, I would feel bad for him. But, he did kill someone, and that deserves a form of punishment. Not death, because that is just doing to O what he did to his father. Nobody learns anything from that. Today's jury would probably give him life in prison. Make him live with is own guilt and make a poor man suffer. I don't think there would be anything to change my mind because killing someone is killing someone. It sucks, and you have to live with the consquences.
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