The descent into "hell" is a very common theme in the stories of many cultures. In Book XI, Odysseus continues his narrative of his trials -- this time it is the story about how he was compelled to make a trip to the underworld, in Greek mythology this is Hades.
Be very specific in your comments to this post.
Describe in detail the ritual Odysseus must perform: why he does it, what he does, and what happens each time he performs it. (This would specifically address one of the Key Features of Myth.)
In your opinion, who are the most important "shades" Odysseus meets and speaks to. Explain why you think this.
What specifically does Odysseus learn about his future?
After reading the entire book, what have you learned about Odysseus in terms of his hero qualities (both Homeric and 21st Century)- be specific.
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The ritual Odysseus must continually perform is a sacrifice. There are often different scenarios in which he must make these sacrifices, but generally it is to better his standings with the gods. He tried sacrificing to Zeus, but was rejected. In this book, he promises to sacrifice, for Tirésias, the best black ram in all the flocks that he possessed. Also, to the shades in Hades, he pledged that when he returned to Ithaca, he'd sacrifice "a splendid barren heifer and heap her pyre high with precious gifts". He tends to sacrifice to gain personal advantage, which may be one of the reasons why he almost always fails. One of the most important shades Odysseus speaks to is his mother, Anticleia, and I think she is the one that impacted him the most by telling him that his wife is still waiting for him and that his kingship is still intact. She also tells him about his son Telemachus and how he is keeping the peace and how important he is in Ithica. Another important shade was Elpénor, the young soldier that fell off the roof and died on Circë's island. He begged Odysseus to burn his body in whatever armor was his so that he could have his spirit lifted. The most important shade he came in contact with was the ghost he sought in the first place: Tirésias the Theban. Tirésias told him that he would be able to make it safely home so long as he left the Sun god's might sheep and oxen alone. He prophesied that if Odysseus were to injure the sheep, destruction would overtake his entire crew and his ship. Did Odysseus learn from this? No. He left Hades and naturally succumbed to pride and suffered destruction because of it. Odysseus seems to be less and less of a hero the more I learn about him. In fact, it is seeming as though he is beginning to become the tragic man. He definitely craves vengeance, which gets him in trouble sometimes and endangers his crew because he is incredibly egotistic. It is hard to classify him as wise either, because you would not think a wise person would make mistakes such as those Odysseus perpetually makes. He is, however valiant and does love his men, which makes up for it, to a certain extent.
ReplyDeleteWhen O does his sacrifice he uses the blood from the ram that he took from the cyclopse. He pours the blood around and that is what causes all of the spirits to come up so he can talk to them. When he does this he talks to many people. The one to have the most effect on him is his mother. He says how she is just out of his reach and he wants to be able to hug and hold her. She tells him what is going on in his hometown and how T is keeping everything in order. He learned that if he killed an animal on helios island that he wouldn't go home for awhile and everyone on his ship would get killed. which did happen.
ReplyDeleteHe is a homeric hero because he is always listing to what the gods tell him to do. He knew that he was the most powerful of his town. Also for the 21 century ones he is very prideful which helps him succeed, but it could also hurt him. He is also smart like when he figured out the way to get away from the cyclops.
Circe tells O to perform a sacrifice in order to wake up the dead. He sacrifices the ram that wouldn't work to sacrifice for Zeus. He spills the blood on a hole and the dead rise out of it. People that O brought up from the dead tell him different stories and ask different things from him. The first guy that T meets is the man that fell off of C's roof. He tells O that he should get a proper burial for him. T then talks to a prophet that tells him his fate. He will return home, be with Penelope again, & meet up with Poseidon sometime again. But the most important person that O talks to is his dead mother. She tells him that his wife is still waiting for him at home. She also tells him that T is protecting his wife and keeping peace. I think this is the most important person that O meets. I have a feeling everything he predicted will come true. I think what O really learns is that people have not forgotten about him and they still believe he is out there. His family has not given up on him. I think O is becoming a little more violent at the the story goes on. He is really trying for his family and is doing whatever he can to get back to his family.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus dings a hole in the ground, slits the throat of a ram and lets the blood spill into the hole dug. The pool of blood is for the spirits. They drink it and when that happens Odysseus can talk to them.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the most important "shade" Odysseus talks to is his mom. She asks him questions and Odysseus is heartbroken because he wants to hug her so bad but he cant.
Odysseus is told by his mom that he is still in control of his land and his wife has been faithful to him.
.....
he must slit the throat of a ram and let the blood pour on the ground in the circle he dug so the spirits come to him after drinking it and he then can talk with them.
ReplyDeleteThe most important "shades" he talks to are: his mother, his commander, Achilles, and Tiresias... Tiresias tells him of the future, his commander lets him know that he is proud of him and wants him to continue on his travel, Achilles' soul appears and asks about his father and finds that his son is famous.
and he could not hug his mother.
He will return home safely and still be king of his land.
The ritual Odysseus is told by Circe to perform is done because it will better his relationship with the gods. He digs a hole, sacrifices a ram. Into the hole, Odysseus pours milk and honey, then wine and water. He then puts white barley meal over the top of this. In this book, Odysseus promises Tiresias that he will sacrifice his best black ram to him. He also promises to the shades in Hades that upon his return to Ithica, he will sacrifice "a splendid barren heifer and heap her pyre high with precious gifts." Every time Odysseus performs this ritual, a shadow, or soul, appears and speaks to him.
ReplyDeleteOne of the most important shades Odysseus speaks to is his mother. His mother tells him of all the happenings in Ithica since he has been away. She tells how his wife has been faithful to him and his son has been keeping everything under control in Ithica and is doing a good job of it, too. She also says how she died. She says she died of grief, waiting for his return back home.
Another important shade would be Elpenor, who had fallen off the roof of Circe's house and broken his neck the morning Odysseus and his crew men left. Elpenor tells Odysseus that he must return to Circe's island and bury his body properly so that he may find peace. Another really important shadow, possibly the most important shadow Odysseus speaks with is the one he originally sought out, Tiresias. Upon speaking to Tiresias, Odysseus learns that his journey home may be made safer if he does not touch the flocks of the sun god. If he does infact touch them, this action will bring further hardship to him and elimination of his remaining crew.
He also learns that his fate is to return home, see his wife, son. Then get rid of the suitors. After this is done, he is to return to another faraway island because it is Poseidon's will for him to do this.
In light of the homeric hero, Odysseus is good at listening to the gods and their advice and accepting their help along the way of his journey. In terms of today's heroic qualities, Odysseus is brave and couragous, adventurous. Although, I believe Odysseus to be more of a brave fool in the respect that he has such abundant pride.
O goes to the River of Ocean in the land of the Cimmerians. There he sacafices a ram like Circe told him to so he could attract the souls of the dead. The first dead he meets is Elpenor, a crewman who fell off Circes roof. Elpenor begs O to come back to the island and give his body a proper burial. O talks to Tiresias who foretells O's fate and says that he will return home, reclain his wife and palace from the suitors. Then he shall to make piece with Posideon. O is warned to not touch the flocks of sun when he reaches the land of Thrinacia or he will suffer hardship and will lose all of his men. O is becoming better at listening to the gods and what they tell him to do, but is also becoming more violent. He does what he wants to do but goes after what he needs.
ReplyDeleteThe ritual he does is he sacrofices the ram. he does it several times so he can get closer to the gods. He does it once and zues doesnt acept it.
ReplyDeletehe digs a pit and puts milk honey then sweet wine, and pure water. then he promises that when he gets to Ithaca he will sacrifice a splended barren heifer and precious gifts.
he then slits the throat of the ram over the pit so the spirits can drink it and he can talk to them
some of the shades he talks to are:
his comrade Elpenor. he asks T to burn all the belongings of his so he can lift his spirt.
theban tiresias. she tells im how he can make it home. she gives him advice so he can make it without getting in trouble. she pretty much tells him his future and says just listen to her and he will be ok.
his mother is probably the most important person he talks to. she tells him that he is still the king and that penelopi is still there waiting for him.
he learns that he will be ok and make it back safly.
i think that he is a hero because he doesn't give up. he is doing whatever it takes to get back to his wife and family. he is also becoming a better listener to the gods.
O is told by Cerces to go awake the dead in Hades. O sails there and digs a hole. He takes his ram and cuts it's throat. He also puts milk, honey, and wine into the hole. The blood spills into the hole and ghost like people appear. O sees his mother, but at first he can't talk to her. He does speak with her and she tells him of the events taking place in Ithica. O meets Elpnor, the kid from his crew that fell off Cerces's roof and broke his neck. Elpnor asks O to go back to Cerces and bury his body. O eventually talks to Tiresias. Tiresias tells O that he is to make it back to Ithica and see his wife and son. He will get rid of all the suitors too. The only way this will happen is if he doesn't touch the sun god's flock.
ReplyDeleteI have learned that O is clever, but not all that brave. He uses the men around him to get what he wants. He makes people think that what he is doing is for the good of everyone, but he looks out mostly for himself.
O is told to wake the dead in Hades so he sacrifices his ram that he stole from the cave to try to wake the dead. The first person he met was Elepenor a crewman that fell off a cerces roof and broke his neck. Elepenor asks O to go back to the island and give the body a proper burial. Than he talks to Tiresias and she tells him that he will return home with his wife and O in Ilthica. He is warned not to touch the sun gods flock if he does than he will not return home. Than his mother tells him that king penolipi is still waiting for him.
ReplyDeleteI think that O is a hero because he is trying so hard to get back to his family after all the years have passed by. If he stays clever he will be back with his family in no time.
Cerces tells O to hades O Sails there and digs a hole and has to sacrifice a ram to be able to see the dead. He also puts wine, honey and milk with the ram. the first dead person he sees is Elpenor. Elpenor fell off Cerces roof. He was part of the crewmen. Elpenor really wants to go back to the island and have odyssues give him a proper burial. he actually begs Oydessus to.
ReplyDeletei think he is a hero because hes doing everything that he can so that he can make it back home. he willing to do anything. He wants to be back home.
His mother i think is the most important person he sees and talks to. His mother also tells him that he still is and will be the kind and also that his wife, penelope is waiting for him at home and that she is unwilling to get married.
O is told to sacafric a lamb and ewe to the dead people. He has to go all the way to Hades to talk to the dead people. He does the rituals and the first person he talks to his Elepenor, the crewman that fell off of Circe's roof and broke his neck. He asked O to give him a proper burial. Then he talks to Tiresias who tells him that he will return to his wife and his son. Also he tells him that he needs to leave the Sun's flock of sheep alone. If he does touch the sheep(which his crewman did) it will be much more difficult for him to get back to Ithnca. He then talks to him mom about her life and how she died. He learns that he does get to go home only if he listens to the Gods right and does his deeds perfect. I think O is a perfect hero because he does what he needs to do from the Gods. He has been given so many tasks to do before he gets to go home. And instead of giving up and just staying in Circe's house or Cyclopsos house he tries to move forward and he wants to be with his wife and son. Even though his crewman don't think the same way, and he has many obstcales he isn't giving up that easily.
ReplyDeleteC tells O that he has to go to Hades and wake the dead. Hades in other words is hell. He sacarfices one of his rams and cuts its throat. He digs a hole and he dumps wine Honey and milk into the hole. O is very Clever hero. i think that he has good hero qualities also. He hasn't given up on this whole adventure thing after 19 years of wanting to come back home.
ReplyDeleteO sacrifices the blood from the ram. He pours the blood around and makes all of the spirits to come so he can talk to them. His mother helped him the most. He says how she is just out of his reach and he wants to be able to hug and hold her. She says what is happening in his hometown and how T is keeping everything in order.
ReplyDeleteHe is a Homeric hero he is always listens to what the gods tell him to do. He knew that he was the most powerful man in his town. Also for the 21 century ones he is very prideful which helps him succeed, but it could also hurt him. He is also smart and is a great fighter.
Oydessus sacafrices a lamb that he is told to do. He has to go bask and give a properal barial to circle. Then he talks to Tiresias and she tells him that he will return to his wife and his son.Oddessus wants to get to his son and wife so bad that he doesnt stop he just keeps on going. His men are not helping him much cause they dont agree with his chioces that he makes because they want to leave.
ReplyDeleteDescribe in detail the ritual Odysseus must perform: why he does it, what he does, and what happens each time he performs it. (This would specifically address one of the Key Features of Myth.)In your opinion, who are the most important "shades" Odysseus meets and speaks to. Explain why you think this. What specifically does Odysseus learn about his future?
ReplyDeleteOdysseus took the ram that he had previously taken from the cyclops and poured its blood into a pit he had dug. "..around that pit, for all the dead, I poured libations: milk and honey first, then sweet wine, then pure water. Over these I scattered--properly--white barley meal" (213). This sacrifice would bring out the spirits so he could talk to them as planned. This is where he talked with his mother, Elpenor, Tiresias, and others. Odysseus told Tiresias that when he made it back to Ithaca he would then sacrifice a barren heifer "and heap her pyre high with precious gifts". Tiresias would receive the best black ram Odysseus he had. When Odysseus gets the chance to talk to the spirits he talks with the shade he came to see, which was Tiresias the Theban. He informed Odysseus that he would make it home on one condition. He was to leave the sun god's animals alone. He, however, did not listen. Hence what has happened to him from that point on. Another shade he met was Elpenor. Elpenor was a young soldier who fell off the roof and died on Circe's island. He asked Odysseus to burn his body (in his armor) so that his spirit could be lifted. He also receives the chance to speak with his mother (Antecleia) once again. She tells him of his homecoming, and she tells him that his wife is still waiting upon his return and that he still is to be king. Also, one of the most important things he learns is of Telemachus and how he has been keeping everything together while he was gone. Talking with his mother again had a big impact on Odysseus.
After reading the entire book, what have you learned about Odysseus in terms of his hero qualities (both Homeric and 21st Century)- be specific.
One thing Odysseus has would be a supreme pride issue, which is a characteristic of the tragic hero. This does set him back, but also could show heroism, too. He he is a very good leader as it is shown throughout the book and has that pride in his accomplishments. Odysseus is a very brave man, and he finds his way out of all situations (with the help of the gods). Odysseus has a great love for his men, and he yearns for returning to Ithaca, not only himself, but his men too. Even if it does not turn out that way. Another thing that Odysseus has that is heroic would be his dedication. He is completely set on getting back home. He has Homeric qualities in that he has accepted his suffering as said in the packet. For example, he had accepted that he was stuck on Calypso's island (even though he was unhappy and full of sorrow because of it). Another Homeric quality would be the way he believes in the gods. All of his actions are thought to be in the way the gods would want them. He trusts fully in them and knew that his fate was in their hands whether he wanted it that way or not. They are the reason he has made it out of all these bad situations he has been put up against.
Odysseus took the ram and poured it's blood into a pit he'd made, be poured milk and honey than wine and water. This would bring spirits for Odysseus, once his wife comes up she tells him how much she misses him and that everything is in order. He also had a chance to talk to his mother. I thought that him talking to his mother also made a big impact. I thought Odysseus is very brave and determined because of his 19 years of trying to get back home. He also trusts the Gods because the whole time his fate was in their hands.
ReplyDeleteOd's ritual he must preform is sacrafice. When he was on the island with the cyclopes he got ram's blood, he has to sacrafice this by pooring it on the ground so that the spirits will come up and he can talk to them. He hears many stories from many different people but the most influentual person is his mother. This is a very emotional experience for him because he wants to be able to touch his mother and hug her but she is just a little to far away. His mother tells him what is going on in his home and what a good job Tele is doing taking care of things. She also delivers the bad news about the suitors though so now he feels even more rushed to get home and save his family and fortune. Od always listens to the God's and spirits when they are giving him instructions which shows how much of a hero he is. He will do whatever it takes to get his mission accomplished and won't let anything stand in his way (for example the cyclopes). He can always get his way out of a tricky situation which is a quality needed to being a hero.
ReplyDeleteO is told that if he wants to wake up from the dead he has to sacrafice something to do so. O ends up sacraficing the ram. He uses the rams blood to pour on the ground. He has to pour the rams blood on the ground so the spirits will come and he can then talk to them. He believes his mother is the most important thing in his life and he wants to be able to be with her touch her feel her hug her and talk to her. He cant because she is just to far away just yet. When he does get to talk to his mother she tells him what she is doing at home and that T is doing a fine job keeping things going. She also tells him what they suitors are doing to her and her house by doing this he wants to really get home even more so he can help his family and safe his mother and his familys history. O will do anything and everything it takes to be a hero he listens very well and does what hes suppose to do when he should do it. He will do whatever it takes to get through everything and come out on top! He always seems to get out of anything situation as Miranda also stated.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus is told by Circe that he must preform this ritual to be able to talk to the dead spirits that he wants to. He used his knife and dug a ditch about a foot by foot. Around the pit he poured milk and honey for the dead. Then he poured wine and pure water. He scattered white barley meal over the top. He pledged that when he got home he would sacrifice a heifer and give many other gifts. After he had prayed he took the sheep and slit its throat over the pit. When he does this crowd of dead people rise up and cry out random things to him.
ReplyDeleteThe most important people he talks to are Tiresias, and his mother-Anticleia. Tiresias tells of his future and that his trip home will be hard and long because Poseidon is mad at him for blinding his son. He will return home but it will be on a different ship and he will be alone. He warns him that when they come to Thrinacia not to kill and eat the grazing cattle. He tells Odysseus that when he returns home his house will have been taken over by the suitors and he will have to kill all of them when he gets home. He must give Poseidon many gifts and hopefully Poseidon will forgive him. Next he sees his mother and she tells him what has happened in Ithaca since he left. She tells him that she died waiting for him to return. Odysseus learns that it will be a long time before he gets home and he will return alone to a house full of lazy suitors that he will have to kill. I think that Odysseus is becoming more violent as the book goes on like Matthew said. He want to return home so bad and it is getting hard for him to stand being away from his wife for so long.
O Travels to the River Of Ocean. There Circe tells him to perform a sacrifice to "awaken the spirtis" O gets the finest black ram, digs a hole in the ground, then slits the ram's throat and pours the ram's blood into the hole. When the spirits are awakened O talks to his mother and she tells him that he is doing a good job and shouldn't give up trying to find P and T. O is doing a terrific job following the Gods and trying to find his family. He shows great determination and never gives up. These are great characteristics of a hero!
ReplyDeleteIn this book O is told that in order to wake from the dead he needs to use the ritual of sacrifice. he ends up sacraficing a ram. the rams blood gets poured onto the ground. he does that so that the spirits will come and he can ask to be let go. i learned that O really loves his mom and she is the most important thing in his life and he really wants to see her and reunite with her but she is to far away. when he does finally see her she tells him what is and has been going on back at home and how T is doing and how he is handiling things. He says that he will do whatever he can to keep his family and his mother safe. he also said he would do anything to make sure that he is the victor and that he comes out on top.
ReplyDeleteDescribe in detail the ritual Odysseus must perform: why he does it, what he does, and what happens each time he performs it. (This would specifically address one of the Key Features of Myth.)
ReplyDeleteIn your opinion, who are the most important "shades" Odysseus meets and speaks to. Explain why you think this.
What specifically does Odysseus learn about his future?
Odysseus follows the orders of Circe and performs a ritual to reach the dead to do this he first digs a hole "About a cubit either way- and round it's edges [Odyseus] poured an offering to all the dead." This offering consisted of first a honey and milk mixture, then wine and thirdly water. Then over the top of it all he pours barley meal. Having completed that much he then promises to sacrifice his best heifer when he gets home to Ithica. Then he finds the best black sheep from the flock and cut it's throat, letting the blood spill into the pit.
He then gets the opportunity to speak to the dead. one person that he talks to is Elpinor. Elpinore is the young man who got drunk, fell off the roof of Circe's house, broke his neck and promptly died. He begs Odysseus to return and burn his body in his armor so that his soul may have peace.
another person he talks to is his mother. She tells him how she died of greif after he left and updates him on the goings on of his house, tells him that Penelope is waiting for him to return and that he will be king once again when he gets home.
A last person who Odysseus speaks to is Tiresian the Thebian. He promises Odysseus that he will return home safely if he does no touch the sun god's animals alone (which he doesn't) when he gets to Thrinacia. He tells him that if he doesn't he will not make it home without enduring more grief and the loss of more men.
Odysseus obviously has an problem with supreme pride. He repeatedly 'get's cocky' so to speak and it end up effecting him for the worse. However he is also very determind and brave, facing potential death over and over again so that he may someday see his beloved Penelope again.
Odysseus has to go to hell to dig a hole to have a ritual. its an offering to the dead. he has to make a mixture of milk,honey, wine, and water. He has to give up a cow when he gets back to Ithica. then he finds a black sheep and cuts his throat then spills his blood into the pit. After he does that he is able to talk to Elpinore. He is a young man who got wasted and fell off a roof and broke his neck. and he asks Odysseus if he will find his body and burn it so his soul can have peace.
ReplyDeletethe next person he talks to is his mother. she tells him that she died because of him leaving and it made her grieve. and tells him that Penelope is waiting for him and he will be king right when he gets back.
Then he talks to Tiresian the thebian he tells that he will get home safely if he doesn't touch sun gods animals.
Odysseus is geting a bit full of himself but he is strong, brave, and he still could be facing death just so that he can get back to Penelope
after he is told to wake the dead he goes to hades and digs a hole. he slits the throat of a sheep that he has sacrificed and lets the blood spill into the hole. now he is able to talk to the dead. they start talking to him and telling him random things all at once. he wants so bad to go back to his wife. the last person that he talks to promises him that he will be home soon.
ReplyDelete