What is Jocasta'view of the integrity of the gods? How do you know this?
At one point during Oedipus' encounter with Creon,they fling these words at each other:
"'I must rule'" (195).
"'Not if you rule unjustly'" (195).
What does this mean in terms of theme (see pretest focus)?
The big question is whether Oedipus is guilty if he did not know. Describe how he comes to his epiphany -- include his denials.
In what ways has the role of the chorus changed?
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Jocasta isn't really taking sides for anyone. She asks to hear both Creon & Oedipus' opinions and how the story went in their words. When she walks in on the two arguing, she asks them if they have any intelligence. They are fighting over a very stupid issue. But she doesn't really help them out at all. She leaves it for them to resolve. Not until the end she voices her opinion. I don't really know how to answer Jocasta's view on the Gods. I believe she is very open to what they have to say and is very considerate.
ReplyDeleteOedipus and Creon are showing an example of man vs. man. They are blaming each other for problems that are coming up. They keep yelling out at each other trying to not have any blame on them. In a way it could also be individual vs. state. Creon doesn't want O to rule them anymore because he isn't doing a very good job, Creon thinks. But O thinks that he is the best ruler for them.
O's epiphany began when O was blaming everything on Creon. J starts telling the story of how an Oracle came to her ex-husband, Laius, that doom would strike him down a son that would be born by J. "My baby no more murdered his father than Laius suffered." (Page 201) O is startled because J said that L was cut down at a place where three roads meet. O asks her where exactly it happened. It happened in Phocis. O asks how long ago, and when L became king, and what he looked like. O announces that he has a dreadful curse on himself. O gets very afraid because he thinks that the blind man was telling the truth when he accused O. The blind man said that O is the true murderer. There is a survivor when L was killed and O wants to see him asap. Later, J convinces O to tell her his whole story about where he came from, his parents, and how he possibly killed L.
The chorus is starting to become a little more opinionated. Or at least trying to tell O's opinion. What they say I don't really understand completely. But they are saying if O does something, they are making a guess on what will happen.
That the Gods lie and the prophecy will not come true. She thinks that because his dad took his son to the mountain and wanted him to be killed. So she thought he was dead and that the prophecy wouldn't happen. He figured out it was him when Jocasta said that it happened at a cross roads. She described the whole situation and what happened as every detail came back into his head.
ReplyDeleteJocasta is in the temple talking to the gods. She wants them to spare O because she doesn't think he is the one who should be killed. She believes that her son was killed after he was given to the shepherd. She brought a branch wound in wool. This shows that she believes in the gods but thinks that they will changer their minds for her because she is a queen.
ReplyDeleteWhen O and Creon are talking about who should be king. that is like Divine law vrs. human law because O being human wants to be in power even if he is wrong, but it isn't truely right for him to be in power if he is wrong.
I think that O starts to get it in his head that he might have killed is father when J is discribing where he was killed and what he looked like. This brought back memories of when O had actually killed him, and not known. He than thinks that he did, but doesn't tell J out right that he thinks he might have. Than as it goes on once again he starts doughting it and doesn't believe that he did because he thinks that Polybus and merope were his parents. After he finds out that those wern't his parents is when he truely believe that he did kill his father and slept with his mother.
Jocasta believes that if she prays to the Gods enough and considering the fact that she is Queen that she can convince them to let O live. She still believes that her son was killed after birth at this point and has no idea that the prophacy has become true. She still strongly believes in the God's but she wants them to change what she thinks they will do.
ReplyDeleteWhen O and C are fighting over who should be ruler and who killed L they get into whether O should still be ruler. O belives that C is plotting against him and wants to over throw his power, which even though C doesn't think O should be ruler he's not exacatly planning anything. When O starts to lose and get all paranoid thats when C tells him he cant rule unjustly.
I still think O is guilty because even if he didnt know it was his father or the king, he still killed someone. When J is describing her previous husbands dealth memories slowly start to flow back into O's head, then once he realizes that Polybus and Merope weren't his true parents and then he gets the confession from the Shepard he finally accepts that he indeed killed his father and slept with his mother. Then J kills herself, and O is taken away.
When Jocasta tells Oedipus that he couldn't have been the one to kill Laius... It was said that he was killed by a bunch of robbers, but she seems to come to doubts with herself when she prays to the Gods asking them to let Oedipus go without proof of committing the murder..
ReplyDeleteWhen Oedipus and Creon start arguing about whether or not Oedipus killed Laius.. some words came about and they say that only someone who rules the right way and could never do something as horrible as killing his own father could rule... and being the person he is.. Oedipus asks to be taken away after his mother/wife kills herself and he finds he has nothing to live for.
Jocasta is praying to the gods, pleading them to let Oedipus live. She believes that if she does this and shows her will to do things for them they will let him live. She also thinks that the talk about Oedipus and his prophecy is not true. That the gods have "lied" and it will not become true either. According to her it is wrong. She also wants to think their is no way he could be her son because her son was killed as an infant. In this, I believe Jocasta respects what the gods have to say, but that she does not believe in the prophecy they have made proclaimed to them.
ReplyDeleteWhen O and Creon get into it you find that O has a temper issue. He ends up telling Creon he wants him dead. In this fight you find that Creon does not want Oedipus ruling any longer, he believes it is not good for Thebes anymore. He does, however, say he wants to rule. He is not planning against Oedipus in this he was just telling him of his opinion on his kingship. Creon is just worried for the city that Oedipus may be ruling unfairly and causing many consequences later on.
Oedipus' epiphany would be when he starts to grasp that he may be Laius' killer. When Jocasta is telling him about how Laius died Oedipus began to think of an incident where he killed someone in a rash act. This brings great stress and worry over him. Oedipus asked questions like where did this happen and how and to his unbelief it fit his story perfectly. He found he was guilty and believed that even if he was not aware of it he still killed him. He was guilty. This even leads to worse things. Forming the beginning of the end of Oedipus and the worst realization you could think of (fulfillment of prophecy). He then later finds that Polybus and Merope are not his parents. Bringing to the conclusion that through the entire story he found that Laius was his father. Meaning he killed him and married Jocasta, his mother. With the prophecy fulfilled life becomes a downward spiral in no time. They all realize this and Oedipus finds his wife/mother hung by her own hands and he gouged his eyes out.
The role of the chorus seems to become more upfront with things. They voice opinions and say all that has happened not in a bad way, but in one that is full of agony and sadness through the fulfillment of the prophecy.
ReplyDeleteJocasta says Oedipus couldnt have killed Laius but she is having second thoughts and she knows she was wrong when little clues start to show up. When it is for sure that Oedipus killed Laius, Oedipus blinds himself because he has no reason to see anymore. He then asks to be taken away because he has nothing left. He has hurt so many people he wants to get away from everything.
ReplyDeleteJocasta doesn't think that the gods should go thorough with their actions because he didn't know so he should get his life spared. Oedipus leads the way a king should..He goes buy what he thinks because the sees himself as a king figure and doesn't want other people to tell him how to leave.. But when he leads like this he hurts many people. and is getting pushed away from everyone around him.
ReplyDeleteJocasta started to question O when he said that he met some travelers on the crossroads one night and ended up killing all but ONE. This pretty much told her that Oedipus killed his father and that he was in fact, her son. This was just too much for her to take so she ended up killing herself. At the end, O gouged his eyes out because he couldn't bare to see anymore. He then asked to be hauled away from Thebes.
ReplyDeleteJ doesnt think that O killed Laius. She doesnt think that the gods should do what they say they are going to do. She goes to the temple to pray and thinks that if she prays the gods will stop what they are going to do and they wouldnt kill O. J is really fighting for O and i think that is the right thing. she is a really nice person for doing so. She also started to have second thoughts tho when O said he met some travlers on the roads and killed all of them but one that was kind of a clue that he did kill his father.
ReplyDeleteJocasta doesnt believe that the Oedipus killed Laius. She also thinks that that gods should not follow through with their actions. She is starting to doubt herself thought on defending Oedipus because many clues are showing up that maybe he did kill Laius. After it is discoverd that Oedipus did indeed kill Laius he gouges out his eyes because he believes that their is not longer any reason for him to see.
ReplyDeleteJocasta has a very hard time believing that Oedipus killed Lauis and she feels really bad for him. Then she starts to relieze that he probably did becuase there is so much evidence leading up to it. When she finds out that he did infact kill her she kills herself and O feels so bad that he stabs his own eyes out as his own punishment to himself.
ReplyDeleteJocasta clearly believes that the gods will help. She has very strong faith. She said, "I turn to you, Apollo, you are nearest." (211)
ReplyDeleteWhen Oedipus and Creon argue, it is clear that this is a major issue of not only integrity, but supreme pride. You have Creon on one side doing what he thinks best, and Oedipus on the other side doing what he thinks best, and neither one of them are wholly right. Of course they both think their view is best, but they need to work on their communication skills because Oedipus said, "I want you dead." (194)
Oedipus never really got it until it was basically written flat out to him. When Creon accused Oedipus of killing Laius, he quickly shot back with, "If the two of you had never put heads together, we would never have heard about my killing Laius." (192) He just passed it off as Creon being the one at fault in every way he could come up with, because he himself was, of course, perfect. He tried playing the shame and blame game shortly after his argument with Creon and said, "Creon's to blame, Creon schemes against me...he says I murdered Laius-I am guilty." Also, in several instances, he became angry rather than just listening to what the people had to say. When told that Polybus was not really his father, he said, "My father-how can my father equal nothing? You're nothing to me!" (218) He came to his epiphany when he questioned the shepherd who failed to kill him as he was instructed. He finally understands after the shepherd spoke about the prophecy. Then Oedipus said, "O god-all come true,all burst to light! O light-now let me look my last on you! I stand revealed at last-cursed in my birth, cursed in marriage, cursed in the lives I cut down with these hands!" (232) Oedipus couldn't deny it any more.
The chorus changes from more of an announcer and summarizer to that of a real character, and actually begins to have discussions with the characters in the play.
Jocasta is pretty much doing whatever she can to make herself believe that O didn't kill his father. He really didn't mean to kill his own father. He didn't realize it was even him. He came across some travelers and killed them, not knowing who they were. She keeps saying that her son (which is O) was killed when he was a baby. But when it actually all comes to her, she can't take the truth anymore so she ends up killing herself. This hurts O very much so he literally takes his eyes out of his head; just because he didn't want to see what was going on. And to partially punish himself because of what he has done.
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