Describe what happens in Book XXII. As a citizen of the 21st Century, what do you think of Odysseus and Telemachus by the end of Book XXII?
Were their actions justified in terms of the Homeric Hero? Explain.
Be sure to continue marking quotations to support your answers on the test (refer to the pretest focus.) You will need six quotations:
1. Support for hero traits (Homeric and/or 21st Century)
2. Support for the theme intervention of gods (especially Athena)
3. Support for the theme disguise
4. Support for a theme of your choosing
5. Support for Key Features of Myth
6. Support for Team TO's Cycle of the Hero
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They kill all of two of the suitors, and none of them have any life harming wounds. Athena comes as Mentor and first she does not fight with them, but is more or so testing O. Once she starts fighting it is over very soon. At the end they make the unloyal maids clean up all the blood and bodies and take them outside and hang the maids. T was the one who hung them. He hung them because it was a more discraseful death. In our sosiaty that is seen as very wrong and it changed my view on T and O a little bit like they are still the good guys, but not as good as i thought they were. It does go along with the homeric hero though because that was okay in that day in time. they wanted to show that they were better than everyone else and this is how they showed it. Now other people know not to mess with them.
ReplyDeleteThis is an extremely brutal book because Od shows absolutely no mercy for all but two suitors. After the first one is killed the others think it is a simple mistake but it does not take long for them to realize this is extremely wrong. A battle breaks out and in the end Od, Tele, Eum, and Phil only have slight wounds and all (but 2) suitors are dead, just the way Od wanted it. Living in todays world this shocked me..I don't really think less of Od and Tele..it just made me realize how much times have changed. In that day it was completely acceptable..even when Tele hung the unloyal maids no one thought wrong of it..it was simply a sign of power is all. Well a sign of power when they killed the suitors but a sign of loyalty when they killed the maids. I don't think they did anything wrong though..the Homeric Hero listents to the Gods and since Athena (disguised as Mentor) fought in that battle that backs up the fact that Od and Tele truely believed it was the right thing to do.
ReplyDeleteO is never scared he never backs down to the change that he is given. O tries to kill the suitors that were taking over his mothers house. He kills the first one that they dont think he is for real but after a bit they know he is. O doesnt mess around and in this matter he didnt either. A huge battle broke out and they start to take out suitors one by one. In the end O, T, Eum, and phil took out all but 2 of the suitors. Living in the u.s today it was crazy to me that they just did all of that to the suitors. I would never think about killing anyone no matter who bad i hated them. Times have changed as Miranda stated. It was totally ok for them to do that to them. Today things like that happen but people get into huge trouble for doing so. Back then O did not he was the hero and nobody in this age would have been a hero to very many if they did something of that nature.
ReplyDeleteThis book was very grusome and crazy. O didnt show any mercy towards the suitors. When he killed the first one the rest of the suitors didnt even think it was for real and were in shock. O showed great courage by killing the suitors he never backed down and never gave up just like always. After that a huge battle erupted and O, T, and E only had minor injuries and all except for two of the suitors were dead. i think their reasons were definetly justified becasue i would be pretty upset with people invading my house and trying to run my life. I was pretty surprised when i saw that they killed most of the suitors and how they killed them. In life today most people would not even consider doing something like this especially to so many people. This book just shows how much things have changed and how differnt the world is today than in the past.
ReplyDeleteIn this book O kills the suitors. he shows no mercy towards them he doesn't like that they were there taking advantage of his son and trying to steal his wife. O, T, E, and Phil only have little wounds. they killed all but two of the suitors.
ReplyDeletethen after they kill them they make the unloyal maids clean it all up. after it is clean they take them outside and hang them all.
I think that T and O are still heros but i don't think much of them anymore. they didn't need to kill everybody. i know they were mad but there was better ways they could handle it. Back then it didn't matter and it made them look like heros because it showed that they were strong and powerful and that nobody can mess with them.
and it just shows how things have changed since then.
O started of book 22 by putting a arrow threw A's throat. Then all of the suitors thought it was a accident but soon realized it wans't they told O that he was the only bad apple. Then A showed up dressed as M she stayed their and watched for a little bit testing how strong O was once she tested him she joined in and then the suitors didnt stand a chance. They had maids that were bad a clean up the dead bodies. They did and then O told T to go kill the maids. He did it in the most disgraceful death he hung them. I think that when T and O did this it made their realtionship stonger and they were happier to have one another again. I have more respect for T an O because they killed all of the suitors that were disrespecting their Wife and Mother.
ReplyDeleteI think pretty highly of Telemachus because he showed great courage. With Odysseus, it is more of a "it's about freaking time" type of thing. Telemachus is definitely a true Homeric hero, but probably also possesses true 21st century hero qualities, because he wants justice for his mother and respect for his father, not a reputation as is the case with Odysseus. Odysseus is definitely the ideal Homeric hero, but as far as 21st century heroes go, eh.. not much there. He always seeks his own glory in everything as is typical of the Homeric hero, but in the end, he does come through as Penelope's knight in shining armor.
ReplyDeleteTheir actions are definitely justified as far as the 21st century hero goes, but as far as the Homeric hero, that is debatable. The aim of the Homeric hero is to obtain honor and respect from peers, subjects, or enemies for that matter. I do not yet know if Odysseus will be well accepted by the people for killing all these men, and he certainly wasn't making friends with their families or people. At least as far as the Ithicans are concerned, I believe he would be considered a Homeric hero, but I am not so sure about anyone else, because the others are more likely to show fear than respect, and there is a big difference between the two.
Telemachus and Odysseus battle the suitors with the help of the cowherder and the swineherder. They kill all the suitors, one by one, first with arrows, then with spears. After all of the suitors have been brutally killed, Odysseus orders Eurycleia to bring down all of the betraying maids and commands them to clean up the dead bodies of the suitors and pile them up outside. Then the maids are to line up outside the palace, and Telemachus devises one giant noose that goes around all of their necks. They are all hanged for their betrayal. Next, Milanthius, still hung out in the sun with his hands and feet bound at his back, is brought down and outside. Odysseus cuts off his nose, ears, genitals, and then his hands and feet and leaves him to die. Odysseus then proceeds to clean and sanitize his palace. Although courageous (because obviously it takes great courage to kill, even if it was a usual occurance of that time) the way Odysseus and Telemachus kill the suitors and handle the betrayers seems very savage-like and dirty to me. Their killing is so merciless.
ReplyDeleteYes, I think in terms of the Homeric Hero, Odysseus and Telemachus pretty much match up to that. Although the plan to overthrow the suitors was their own, they had input from the gods and Athena herself was there during the battle instructing and lending a hand. The gods' influence is important to the Homeric Hero as it was for Odysseus and Telemachus.
T and O take on all the suitors by them selves. I think that they are heroes because they got rid of what they have been fighting this entire time and they did it together as father and son. T showed alot of courage fighting against all the suitors I didn't see that coming. I thought that O would take them on all by himself and I figured he would succeed but in the end T helped him and they fought off the suitors by themselves. After all the fighting O had the maids clean up the bodies and the blood. Than T did a very disrespectful thing he had a hanging outside there house for all the maids and hung them all outside of the palace.
ReplyDeleteT and O get into a fight with the suitors and start kicking butt. They kill all of the suitors with arrows and spears and eliminate all of them. T fought agianst the suitors witch i thought took a lot of courage because i T has really hated them for so long because they have been very disrespectful to his mother and treated her bad. After T and O get done fight they help the maids clean up all of the blood and bodies. I think the killing were good because they got rid of the suitors but the should of just made them leave.
ReplyDeleteO and T kill all of the suitors with arrows, spears, and axes. T really stepped up he never really has faught before. He always has hated the suitors and now that he has the chance to kill them he really does a great job fighting. O is the best fighter in the world so this is nothing new to him. They both finally get to take out all the anger that they have for the suitors because they hate them so much. If something like that happened nowadays it would be very bad. Maybe a fight would break out but that much killing would be terrible. Their actions were fine because they need to do whatever it takes to get the task done.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of book 22 you find that Odysseus and Telemachus have finally had revenge on the suitors. They killed every one of them. Another thing they did once they killed the suitors was they brought out all the (women) maidservants that had done them wrong. Then they hung them. I personally did not see that coming just for the fact that they were women, and how you would think women are treated differently. I do not think I would have had anyone kill them, but I also do not know what would be to do with them if they were left alive. Since they did do them wrong I believe they did deserve some punishment (not that hanging was right though).
ReplyDeleteThrough Odysseus and Telemachus being like the Homeric Hero, I do believe he could fit that part. Odysseus and most in this book believe solely on the gods. Everything happens because of the gods and by way of the gods. They do do the things they do like fighting the suitors (both), getting away from all these places after Troy (Odysseus), and getting back to Ithaca (Telemachus)on their own, but they are guided by the gods. (Mainly Athena and Zeus).
In Book XXII Odysseus and Telemachus kill the suitors. They also make the disloyal servants clean up the mess. Once all the blood and bodies were cleaned up, the servants were sent outside to be hung.
ReplyDeleteAs a citizen of the 21st Century, I believe it was wrong to hang the servants. I mean, i agree they deserve some kind of punishment, but maybe not hanging.
By the end of the book I feel like they might have over reacted.
in this book Odysseus and Telemachus kill suitors. and after they do the killing they make the servants that were horrible to them clean everything up. and after they did that they where up to death by being hung outside.
ReplyDeleteI think that the servants should have known what they were doing so they should have gotten killed!
O finally comes out and says who he really is. The suitors are so surprised and also very scared. O and T and there followers get weapons and armor and they go fight the suitors. The suitors are finally all killed. After that O calls Euryciea to come over and tell him what woman have not been loyal to him. She tells them 12 woman. O makes them clean up all the dead suitors out of the hall and also make them clean the tables. After that O orders T to hang all these woman. Euryciea calls out to the other woman to come out( the loyal woman) and when they see O they are also very happy and they rejoice. O is very happy and he is very emotional at this point. He reconizes all these people that he left behind so many years ago.
ReplyDeleteAs for me living in the 21st century, i think what they did to the woman and also to the suitors is kind of cruel. I mean O was gone for so long! They all thought he was dead, so the only thing the woman knew what to do was to move on. But then when O comes back they get killed after he has been gone for so long. I understand more of why the suitors got killed, i mean if i was O i would be pretty mad too if other people tryed to come in and take all my properity and my title as king and also take over his spouse. But i dont think all of them were desrved to be killed.
At this point in the book i dont look at O and T has heros. They killed woman who thought that O was dead!!
Pretty much what happened was all hell broke loose in the hall. Odysseus shot an arrow at a person then revealed himself. people tried to calm him down but then him and his allies attacked. athena came and helped after a while just so she could see what kind of man he really is. i believe they had all the right to do what they did, the suitors had been nothing but trouble for that whole family and now it was all over and things can go back to the way they were before he ever left.
ReplyDeleteO shot an arrow and killed Antinous. The other suitors think that the shot was a mistake and tell him to calm down and not to shoot anymore. O sticks to his plan and fires more arrows at the suitors taking them out one at a time. Then O reveals himself from his disguise and the suitors realize what is going on. O said he would not spare any one. T gets more weapons and shields from the store room for Eumaeus and Philoetius, the loyal servants of O. Athena appears and watches before joining, which ended the battle quickly. O, T, and the servants have no severe injuries after the battle.
ReplyDeleteI think that what O and T did was right in that time, but now it would never happen. I think that the battle kind of reunited O with T and they are glad to be back together.
This book is extreamly graphic and gory!
ReplyDeleteOf course I expected Odysseus and Telemachus to kill the suiters never did I think it would be in such a barbaric way. First they kill all the suiters, with arrows and spears, then they make all the maids who betrayed penelope come down and clean up all the bodies, piling them up outside. After that the maids are brought outside and hung with one giant noose. Then Milanthius is brought in and gets his ears, nose, genitals, hands and feet cut off and is then left to die. At the end of this chapter, I thought of Odysseus and Telemachus in a whle new way. They were so merciless in their killing (even though the suiters and maids deserved it) I defintily didn't see it coming
when O shot an arrow at A, everyone thought it was on accident but then they realized that it wasnt and they killed the suitors, a side of O came out that no one expected at all. after they killed all the suitors, they decide on what to do about the unfaithful women. they decide to hang them, so all those women died.
ReplyDeletei think that they made the right decision. those people needed to go and to not be there anymore to harm or put them through bad times.
In bokk XXII, Odysseus takes his revenge on all the men who tried taking his life from him(penelope)and also all the servants that were disloyal to him.. His way of doing that was by killing them... do i think it's the right approach in the 21st century?? no.
ReplyDeletebut as for the homeric... yes. He, in that time, as a king is expected to do things like that and take that approach to get what he wants.. he is king.. it's the way things work, but today .. if someone were to do that.. we wouldn't call them a hero as much as a murderer and put them in jail for it.
I think based on their time and what was right then.. they were heroes in their people's eyes.
In this book there is a lot of blood being spread. The suitors are all killed by Telemachus and Odysseus. The maids are hung because Odysseus doesn't like how they had sex with the suitors. The traitor has his whole body cut into pieces pretty much and in the end there are a lot less people! I think that both Odysseus and Telemachus posses Homeric and 21st Century qualities. They are smart and quick on there feet. I don't know how well they will be treated for killing so many people. The families of the suitors might not be to pleased with Telemachus and Odysseus. They will just have to lay low for a while and see how everything plays out.
ReplyDeleteBook 22 is the most intersting book so far, I think. It has the battle and blood of all the suitors. Finally, T and O are getting back revenge of all the harm the suitors put on them. O and T are true hero if they were in the 21st Century. There were only four men fighting off an abudunce of men who would do anything to be the husband of P. They knew that they were at odds of losing the battle, but they fought anyway. They believed that they could do it and they went out and did. As for the Homeric Hero it's a little different. It say's that they should be honored by their peers and be respected.
ReplyDeleteThey just killed all the suitors. A lot of the suitors lived in Ithica with their families. The families aren't going to be to happy when they find out that their sons died because of O and T. I think they are true heros. They knew going in the battle they could have died and not be respected by their peers, but they did it anyway. They had to make a point across to the suitors. And they did.